Showing posts with label Put Up Your Dukes. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Put Up Your Dukes. Show all posts

Thursday, October 22, 2009

PUYD: Hemsky, Frolov, Stafford and a Little Crazy Talk

Smokin' Ray Burnt - I don't think that Hemsky was that bad Monday night. What are your thoughts on it? Don't forget, when I rate a player, I judge him on this season, not on previous seasons. Therefore, Hemsky wasn't that bad, plus he was sick still.

Paq Twinn - I'll admit that based on this year he wasn't that bad, but in the big picture, it wasn't that good of a game either. He looked like he was using a wrong handed stick last night. His passes were off, and he had a hell of time shooting the puck. He missed the net completely when he came out of the sin bin on a break away, then in the last minute. Then for the second time THIS season, the other net is empty and Hemsky was unable to do anything, almost looked like he slipped and fell when trying to do too much. Just shoot the puck, on net, please. He was around the puck all night but didn't do anything productive with it.

Paq Twinn - Maybe he has an injury or something, but then he should come out and say so. So that we (the fans) don't get pissed at him when he looks like a bag of shit out on the ice. If he is healthy then that was a bad game, by his standards.

Smokin' Ray Burnt - I just don't get it. Big deal, so he didn't score. He took eight shots (three hitting the net) That to me is a decent night for Ales Hemsky. Are you still on the trade Hemsky band wagon? Give the guy a break. I've been hard on him, and even I'm not pissy at him for last night. Can anything please these rabid fans?

Paq Twinn - Maybe I'm expecting too much from him, but I haven't seen him make amazing tap in passes since we traded Smytty. Smytty always gushed at how he would feel the puck go off his stick before he even seen the pass. Where did that Hemsky go? Maybe it was Smytty being in the right place, I don't know. All I know is the disinterested attitude that Hemsky has shown, drives me nuts.  I remember back in the 05/06 season, my buddy James and I went to the Anaheim game, I think it was the last game of the season, that year. We won and Van lost later that night or the next day, anyway Hemsky was spectacular that game and most of the season that year. He scored 2 goals that game, 1 was the game winner, Rexall was the loudest I'd ever heard a building. My point is Hemsky took the Oilers on his back that night and almost won the game single handily, he continued to play awesome through out the playoffs all the way to game 7 of the finals. He hasn't played even close to that well since.

Smokin' Ray Burnt - Hey, it drives me nuts too. But they guy is our "star", do we really need to harass the guy to the point of leaving here? He is an amazing talent who needs someone better than Jacques to play with. He's no Ryan Smyth. I just think that Hemsky will improve to your standards and will make all the haters insert a few feet in the mouths. What was everyone expecting from this guy? 100 assists and 50 goals? There is no doubt that he will once again lead the Oilers in points once again at the end of the year. (Unless Quinn keeps him as an option for the PP, rather than the only option.)

Paq Twinn - No it would be foolish to expect those high of numbers, but I don't think that a guy with his ability should be satisfied with 20 goals and 40 assists. I believe he is capable of 30 goals and 70 assists though. But in the end you are right, in that we (the fans) shouldn't run him out of town either. Perhaps my frustrations stem from managements complete ineptitude at getting him someone better than Horcoff to play with. I'll reserve further judgement until he gets a 30 goal scorer to play with on a regular basis.

On some what related topic, I hear Frolov from the Kings may become available. Let's see how important getting Hemsky someone to play with is, in the eyes of management. Its VERY important in my eyes.

Smokin' Ray Burnt - It's important to me too. We need a guy for the LW on the first line. But would Quinn go with a little guy in that spot? Me thinks no. Has anyone thought that maybe it's Horcoff's that looks shitty and all he is doing is bringing down Hemsky? Maybe people are mad at the wrong guy?

Graham Martin - No, it doesn't matter what Horcoff looks like out there, Hemsky is a good enough player that he should look better and make his linemates look better. Now, I did think that last night was his best game of the season even though that doesn't say much. And if he had been healthy last night, maybe he finally breaks out. As for the tap in passes, he needs someone to be in the right position, and JFJ just isn't a smart enough player to go to that spot.

Paq Twinn - @GM And that's where I think Frolov would be a great fit.  @SRB I think that if the Oilers traded for Frolov, Quinn would put him on the top line. He played Comrie, Horc, and Nilsson together the other night. Those are 3 small guys, and besides I don't think Frolov is that small.

Smokin' Ray Burnt - *hangs head in shame* Yeah... he's not small.  He's 6'2", 208 lbs.  My mistake.

*For his error, Smokin' Ray leaves to get beer for the boys*


Paq Twinn - So I hear the Oilers may trade Gilbert to Buffalo for Drew Stafford. I'd much rather see the Oilers make a pitch for Alex Frolov from L.A..  I think AFro could be what Hemsky needs, and visca versca.

James Green - Huh?  Vice, versa you mean right?

Graham Martin - Stafford would be a much better option than Frolov. Frolov has been around awhile and hasn't gotten better for a while. But the Stafford for Gilbert trade won't happen without the Oilers bringing in more salary than just Stafford.

Paq Twinn - Really?!? Stafford over Frolov? Before the last 8 games I may have agreed with you. But not now, we have enough 3rd line grinders. No matter how much of an improvement Stafford may be, he's still just a grinder, 25 goal seasons are the best he can hope for. I want someone that can play with Hemsky, a natural LW that can score 30+ goals a season. Frolov even has some size at 6'2" 200+ lbs.

Graham Martin - Stafford is not just a grinder. And Frolov is not a 30+ goal a year guy. And why make a trade right now when the team is playing well and winning games. Frolov also carries with him some baggage.

Paq Twinn - Frolov has scored over 20 goals the last 5 seasons and over 30 in 2 of those years. I'm starting to learn that almost any player with game breaking ability has some sort of "baggage". The reason this comes up now, with the team playing well, is because of Frolov's situation in LA. He's on the way out at some point this year. Might as well go for it as soon as you can.

Smokin' Ray Burnt - *walks in the back door with the beer*  Visca versca... WTF guy? *laughs hard and pees a little*

Smokin' Ray Burnt - @ Graham: Frolov is a head case just like Hemsky. Very moody if not treated to his liking (just like Hemsky). But I'd still take a chance on him. I think he could be deadly with Hemsky. A RH shot that plays LW. He has the size and he's a cap hit of 2.9 million. That's only .9 more than Nilsson and he's not even playing.

Like I said on OJ.  Nilsson, Wild or Petry and a 4th. That's a little low ball but the guy is a FA at years end. But every team counters with an offer. The price will go up. So he replaces Nilsson and takes a spot from a guy like Moreau. To me that's a win, win. But as you know, I'm not a Moreau lover.

I don't want Stafford. I don't see what's so great about him. I really don't think we need him. Plus I see no reason to turf Gilbert who has a good contract. Why do the Oilers do that anyways? Sign a guy to a sweet contract and move him while we get stuck with the Pisani's and the Staios's and the Horcoff's of the world? What gives?  Anyways... I like Frolov and don't like Stafford and Smokin' Ray is awesome!

Oh... I said that if Penner plays like he is now, he should have a shot to make the Olympic team. Apparently people think I'm crazy. What's that all about? He's better than Iginla right now and he's a lock on the 1st line for TC. WHAT!?!

Graham Martin - There is no sense breaking up team chemistry to bring in a non game breaker. besides, to bring in a forward, we have to get rid of a few forwards cause there is such a back log of them.

Smokin' Ray Burnt - p.s. Nice to see James come around. *slaps him a handshake and passes him a beer*

Graham Martin - Hahaha. Me and my old man were talking about Penner the other day. But with Ryan Smyth playing the way he is, he would get that spot over Penner.  That being said, he has to at least be on the radar the way that he is playing right now. He's better than Getzlaf to right now, and Lecavalier. And ps, you don't want to give up Petry before he even gets to the show. He is similar to Chorney, but better offensive skills. He moves the puck so well. He is a guy the Oil definately need to keep.

Smokin' Ray Burnt - If Penner is in the top 20 at the time of the team selection, he better be on that team. Just sayin'...  And Smyth too. He's freaking awesome this year.

Paq Twinn - As good as Penner has been playing he should get a look, but I wouldn't say he's a lock, I doubt he'll even make it. As much as I'd like to believe he has a chance "our" country is stacked, we could ice 4 teams that could compete for a medal.

Paq Twinn - Oiler fans got a refeshing start to the season due to Quinn's "clean slate" mentality, I'm not so sure TC will work that way. I believe there's an "old boys" mentality involved there, to some extent any way.

Smokin' Ray Burnt - By the way, now that the TRADE HEMSKY poll is close to over, here are the results...

Yes, Hemsky Who? 2 (18%)
No, I Love Him *cries* 2 (18%)
Yes, if it's Value for Value 2 (18%)
No, He's too Cheap to Let Go 5 (45%)

Smokin' Ray Burnt - Ok boys.  We are out of beer.  You guys want to go and have a bite to eat and drink more beer?

Paq Twinn - Who's buying?
Graham Martin - You?
James Green  - Haha!  Sounds good.  VĂ¡monos!

Sunday, October 18, 2009

Who's The Best/Worst of the Edmonton Oilers and Hemsky for Kovalchuk?



1) Dustin Penner: He's fast, he's skinny and he's on fire. He's leading the team in points and is making MacT look foolish. In a million years, I never would have seen this coming. Never. He's the best Oiler right now. 5 goals, 4 assists for 9 points in 7 games. Wow!

2) Nikolai Khabibulin: He struggled in the start and has been great the last 3 games he's played. He has kept the Oilers in all the games and has looked pretty casual in goal. He just may be the Oilers MVP at the end of the season.

3) Gilbert Brule: He's playing like this is his last chance. Which it very well may have been. But if he keeps playing like this, he's not going anywhere. He has 4 goals, 3 assists in 7 games. 2nd on the team in points.

Honorable Mentions: Sam Gagner/Patrick O'Sullivan/Zack Stortini



1) Patty-O His point totals aren't where they need to be, yet. This guy is flying out on the ice EVERY game, you can't help but notice him. He's even throwing his 5'11" 190 lbs around like some kind of power forward. Its only a matter of time before he starts lighting the lamp with regularity.

2) Ladi Smid on a team with few "shutdown" D, this guy is pulling his weight and then some. Once heralded as an offensive type, and almost being traded away, Ladi is cementing his place on the Oilers blueline for years to come.

3) Zack Stortini This guy flat out competes every game. When he broke in few years back, all he had to do was fight, and he wasn't the best at that (huggy bear). This guy has taken his game to a new level, doing everything he can to help his team win, even score PP goals. He is turning into everything some guy named Georges wanted to be for the Oilers.

Honorable Mentions: Gags, Chorney, JDD.
1) Ales Hemsky: This Oilers Superstar is far from it. He's not a star and he's not very super. He maybe getting points but that doesn't mean anything when your gliding out on the ice and looking useless. Last year he pissed me off by blaming MacT for turning him into a checker. He also wanted to be the "man" of the team. Where are you this year Hemsky? *crickets chirping*

2) Mike Comrie: Mrs. Duff might be putting up points like Hemsky is, but his effort and skating speed sucks. All his points come in the 1st half of the game. Look at him in the 3rd when they show him up close. He can barely breath. He needs to get better. Or at least his conditioning.

3) Shawn Horcoff: Other than winning faceoffs, he hasn't done a thing to live up to his $5.5 million dollar cap hit. He has a whopping 1 goal and 1 assist and he's -2 so far. Maybe I don't know jack about hockey, but a 1st line guy needs more than 2 points in 7 games.

Honorable Mentions: Ethan Moreau/Steve Staios



1) Hemsky Normally I wouldn't pick a guy that has already been done, but Hemmer has been the biggest disappointment so far this year. I once had high hopes for this guy (as did everyone else). But I'm starting to wonder if trading this guy isn't the Oilers best option.  He's worth more in the trade market right now then in an Oilers uni. Hemsky needs to man up to his "soft" predictable play. STOP circling out of the offensive zone you dolt.

2) Moreau His bad play is being covered up by his line mates superb play. But this guy has lost everything that I used to like about him. Speed-gone, Tenacity-gone, Leadership (by example or otherwise)-gone. Why is this guy our Captain again? Oh ya Jason Smith said he'd be good for the job. Who's "Quinn's" Captain?

3)Gilbert After a great rookie campaign (set Oilers rookie goal scoring record), Gilby has taken some steps backward. I expected more from this guy this season, he hasn't been awful but he's not where he should be either. I don't think its too high of an expectation, that he should get 15-20 goals this year, and with Souray out for some time, Gilby needs to step up on the PP, which he hasn't.

Honorable Mentions: Staios, Horcoff

*Graham walks into the room and slams his fist on the table*

GRAHAM MARTIN: Gilbert does not belong on that list! He has been much better than Staios when he has been in the lineup. I definitely agree with Hemsky, Moreau and Comrie though.

PAQ TWINN: I did say that Gilbert hasn't been awful, just not progressing the way most thought he would. I didn't want to start on Staios cause I didn't know what else to say other then he sucks. With the way the Oilers have been playing, I was hard pressed to think of guys that are sucking. Gilbert just hasn't stepped up, with Souray out. He has been that bad, I just think he can be a lot better.

GM: Gilbert has done the one thing that he is paid to do really well. He makes a great first pass out of his own zone. Him and Grebs are so patient and have such great vision back there. That is one reason why the Oilers are scoring so much, their transition game has been fantastic. They move through the neutral zone with speed and that is a direct result of the first pass.

PT: I don't particularly agree with Horoff being on the bad list, he's had to endure a winger (Hemsky) that has shown NO desire to be the player he can be, and has had a revolving door on the other side. He's not 1st line material, but he has never demanded anything. All Horc does is compete game in and game out, even when Hemmer is dragging his ass, Horc still does his job. He's not a goal scorer so I don't expect that much offense from him. Its like expecting Strudwick to win the Norris, its just not their game. How ever -2 is unacceptable in the role I see Horc in.

I don't have a problem with Gilby's passing. He needs to shoot more though, he should be the point shot on the 2nd pp unit when Souray is on the 1st unit.

I don't have anymore arguments on Gilby, but when picking 3 worst Oilers, and 83x2,91,10,and 18 are already done, who could you come up with, besides Staios cause everyone knows that he SUCKS. So come on GM, who's your top and bottom 3 for the Oilers this season?

GM: Top three have been Penner, O'Sullivan, Brule hands down. and bottom three have been Hemsky, Horcoff, Moreau. As for Horcoff, you should expect offense from him cause HE IS A 5.5MIL A YEAR GUY! He is payed like a first liner and he has shown in the past that he does have a nose for the net. He has a very quick release, he just needs to use it more. He does compete game in and game out, but he has shown so much more in the past. his game three against the sharks in the playoffs that year, was one of the best performances by an oiler that I have ever seen. I will never forget the game that he played that night. He is so much better than what he has shown.

SMOKIN' RAY:  Horcoff sucks on the 1st line.  He's a great 3rd liner, and ok 2nd liner and a below average 1st liner.  End of story. 
PT: If Hemsky's not the cornerstone of the Oilers franchise. Who should the Oilers build around for the future? I personally don't think we have one, so I think we should trade Hemsky and change, for one ie; Ilya Kovalchuk, Jordan Staal, or Alex Semin.
GM: Jordan Stall is definately not the guy. Semin....maybe. But Kovalchuk is the guy, that if there was ever a chance of bringing him in, you jump on it!

SR: I don't know who I'd take. Rick Nash maybe. I really like Milan Lucic. He'd be nice to have (he was drafted with the Oilers draft pick that they gave up for Samsonov). Maybe Vinnie out of Tampa?

But Brownlee is right, we are not going to get a top guy out of this trade. Maybe the guys we have already mentioned are not attainable with Hemsky as the key piece? Maybe he's not as good to the rest of the league like the Oiler fans all believe he is? Maybe his value isn't that high after all?

PT: The only way to find out what the value is, is shop him around, kick some tires so to speak. Hemsky alone would not land a Kovalchuk or a Nash but if you include a couple other guys like Pouliot and Nilsson, maybe. It'll be interesting to see if Atlanta can extend Kovie's contract or not, if not I think they'll trade him, then anything is possible.
SR: As far as building around a player... what do you mean we don't have one Paq Twinn? We have two. Gagner and Eberle. Both are going to be integral cogs to this team moving forward. Both are going to be stars in the NHL and both will be the leaders of this team in the next 5 years, long after Hemsky turns into a pair of old balls. It's going to be the 14 and 89 show.
**Ray, Paq and Graham all decide to head over to Fat Larry's Bar and Grill for a few beers and wings.  No more fighting for tonight. It's time to party.**

**This was all played out on Facebook.  Add Smokin' Ray Burnt and Paq Twinn as freinds and join the fight.**

Tuesday, September 29, 2009

Put Up Your Dukes #1 (Gagner/Schremp)

Welcome to Put Up Your Dukes.  This is a segment where we have a verbal fight about whatever floats our boats.  Today we fight about Gagner and Schremp.


Round 1


Smokin' Ray Burnt - Hey Guy. Not sure if you know, but Gagner is on the 4th line to start the season. *sends text*

Paq Twinn - It is what it is, but I don't like Gags playing with some less talented guys like that.  That is Bullsh*t  in my opinion. Being demoted to the 3rd line would have been sufficient enough.  But this is nuts.

SRB - Yeah, but I thought that the 3rd line was more of a 1c, not an actual 3rd line.  The more I think of it, I'm cool with Gagner on the 4th line.  You get what you give.  So far this year... that's not much.

PT - For the record, I'm not cool with it.  Gags needs someone else on a line with him and it doesn't matter if it's the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th line.  He needs someone with skill to play with.  What good is it doing him playing with Stortini and Moreau?

SRB - I agree to a point.  But there is a real answer to this problem.  Be better Gagner.  Be better and this wouldn't be an issue right now.  It's his fault.  Although, I bet this lasts only two games tops and he'll be back with Penner and Cogs where he belongs.

PT - I don't know man.  If this was the plan all along, then letting Schremp go was a mistake.  The Captain should have been put on waivers.  But I doubt anyone would take him. *shakes head in disgust*  How is he supposed to succeed playing with Moreau and Stortini?  Hey, maybe Storts will score more than Gags this year?  I reckon Quinn and Co. just made their 1st mistake.

SRB - You doubt the Mighty Quinn?  Pfft.  But I'm with you on Moreau.  Not sure why Nilsson isn't getting a shot with Gagner/Stortini.  Four lines of cream puffs and a side of crust.  Wait a minute.  Did you mention Schremp?  Time for round 2.  Ding, ding!


Round 2


Paq Twinn - So long Schremp, if it was up to me you'd have gotten your chance here two years ago. Good luck in your home state.

Graham Martin - The thing is I don't think that he ever deserved a chance to crack the lineup in any of his years at training camp except maybe this year, and that is another reason (previous conversation) why I didn't like the Comrie signing cause I thought it spelt the end for Schremp. And if you don't show up in camp, you can't make the team, it is that simple.

PT - I agree that he didn't show enough in camp to make the teams past, I just think he should have got more then 7 games in the time he was here. He should have got 7 consecutive games, the year he got 76 points in Springfield, to show something. I just think the Oilers/MacT didn't give him a fair chance, especially when scoring was so sorely needed.

GM - Again, I have to go back to the whole defense thing (another previous conversation), and if you don't play it in the NHL, you are a serious liability. and after watching two of his preseason games, he is absolutely awful without the puck.

PT - I can't disagree with that, but you could possibly counter balance he liabilities by playing him with more defensively aware linemates. MacT just couldn't think outside of the box, or box+1, or diamond etc. he was too single minded as a coach. That's why Reddox and Peterson got so much ice time, just because they knew where to be without the puck. We had way too many players that knew what to do without the puck and not enough that knew what to do with the puck.

Smokin' Ray Burnt - *shows up late to the party*  On one hand, Graham is right. A guy needs to play defense first in order to be good in this league. Schremp can't do that.

However... Last year when Schremp had 3 points in 3 games (the 4th game doesn't count because he sat on the bench the whole game), How much better does a guy have to be? That's a point per game. That alone should have given him a better chance with the Oilers. But MacT wouldn't have any of that. Instead, Schremp goes back down and MacT rode the Red Ox for all he's worth.  Schremp and Nilsson were dynamite together in the AHL. Why were these two not paired together in the NHL?

SRB - On a side note: Dan Barnes said that Schremp's Dad sells Schremp Dogs outside the arena in Rochester. Too friggin' funny. Hmmm.. A hot dog player and a hot dog seller. #theworldisgettingmuchclearer

GM - You can put him with defensive minded players, but that takes away from his offensive flair. he needed to be with other scorers. But I do agree with last year, I thought he was better and deserved more games. But without the puck he has no idea what to do.

PT - Hypothetically I would have put him with Smyth and Horcoff back in the day, and put Hemsky with Stoll and Torres. I don't think they (94+10) would have stifled his offense and they could help out defensively. Hemsky would have still been with capable if not equal talents. The more I think about it, MacT was a bad coach, he couldn't even get the best line-up out there never mind getting the best out of HIS line-up. Could of had a 1a and 1b two to three years ago.

SRB - What? Hypothetically, I have no idea what your talking about. Are we still talking about Schremp? This year or then? What?

Way to wreck a good conversation Paq. *walks off into sunset shaking head*

GM -Hahahahahahah. agreed! *rides off on his Harley with a chick on the back*

PT - I never once made any references to this year. I was always talking about past blunders. My whole focus was Schremp and that we never gave him a chance.  This year hasn't officially begun, so I could have only really ever been talking about past years. We don't have the same kind of team now that we had then. I guess my point is that today's waiving and subsequent loss of Rob Schremp could have been avoided if he was given half a chance, with players that would work, when we had said players. But if you guys can't follow me I'll try not to confuse you anymore, besides what's done is done and ain't no amount of debating chances and abilities is going to change it.

I guess we'll disagree to disagree on this one. Guys?  *just realizes no one is here anymore*


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